XZIBIT: It’s the Lasagna Ganja Podcast. I am Mr. X to the Z, XZIBIT.

Tammy: And I’m your girl Tammy, a.k.a. The Cannabis Cutie.

XZIBIT: So let me ask you something. Is representation in cannabis important?

Tammy: Yes, absolutely. The thing about the cannabis plant is it’s a beautiful female plant.

Cannabis plants are either going to be a boy or a girl. There’s also intersex plants. What we’re smoking are girls.

We need the girl to be sexually frustrated so that she’s not using all her energy to produce seeds. We want her to produce flowers that have resin.

As she gets ‘wetter,’ she’s doing this to attract a mate.

So when I think about how beautiful this plant is, I’m thinking about the feminine aspect because the boys are pretty much useless after we get their seed. No offense!

XZIBIT: What?!

Tammy: The stars of the show are the women.

So when I think about brands and I think about women cultivators, there’s a different relationship between us and the plant.

We both have the ability to give life.

I love to find feminine owned brands, especially feminine cultivated plants. That’s so hard to find in the market, though.

So when we do come across feminine owned brands, we really need to rally around them because this is the direction that we need to be going.

XZIBIT: Which brings us to this episode of the Lasagna Ganja podcast.

We have a very special guest today. Her name is Anna Willey, the owner and operator of CAM Cannabis.

Let’s bring her on. How are you?

Anna: I’m good.

XZIBIT: Thank you for coming on.

We celebrate those who are close to our hearts. I have a lot of respect for Anna.

I’ve got to tell a personal story.

I started my second cannabis company in 2020. When I was getting things together and sourcing material, some of the best flower coming in was from CAM.

I called to see if I could get in touch with someone there. Not only did she personally get on the phone and talk to me, she went out of her way to make sure we got what we needed.

And the flower was always A+.

I went up to her place in Sacramento and saw the operation. Not only does she run this thing, but all of her front office was empowered by women who took their job seriously.

Anna: Over the years, you’re like, “Wow, you must really love it” to still be in it.

It’s like any other business you start. You have to embrace it because the first couple of years are tough.

XZIBIT: What did you do professionally before you got into cannabis?

Anna: So I’ve always been into cannabis. I started smoking weed at 13.

I was never really a drinker. In Queens, though, you didn’t get very good cannabis.

In high school, I worked for a company called The Service, which is this huge, underground operation in New York that delivers weed.

But you never saw women. And if you did, they were in the garden.

XZIBIT: Or weed leaf bikinis.

Tammy: Yeah. There’s a thing called a ‘potstitute.’ They always come around during harvest.

Anna: My parents were conservative Indian folks, so I went to college and got an Applied Mathematics degree. I worked in software for 12 years.

I did all sorts of things. Being a woman in corporate America, I got a lot of ‘you hit your ceiling’ vibes. I was like, “I’m 28!”

Tammy: That’s crazy.

Anna: So I knew that if I really wanted something, I’d have to start it on my own.

In 2009, there were a couple of dispensaries in Denver.

I had a full time corporate job and had been growing. I had a six-liter and an eight-liter. So I was a hobby grower. I was making about 4800 dollars a pound of OG.

It gave you a level of freedom where you could do and say what you want at your corporate job. Freedom is really what money brings you.

So in 2009, I tried to raise capital. People thought I was out of my mind. Investors were like, “Are you trying to get me to go to jail?” And I was like, “I don’t know, you invested in pets.com.”

There were a couple of stores that had opened in Denver at that point.

I’d just rented a 5000 square foot warehouse and a 2400 square foot retail space across the street in downtown Denver.

I didn’t know too much about construction, but I learned the hard way.

By year 3, I had started to get my general contractor’s license so that I could build the infrastructure for cultivation facilities.

XZIBIT: And at this time, you were doing this without any partners.

Anna: Without any partners.

It was amazing, though. When we opened in 2009, it was me and 5 of my friends, all guys. We all grew weed in our homes.

We supported each other. They would put their products on my shelves.

There was such a community aspect going on. You knew that if you didn’t go to your friend’s house to trim, then no one was going to come to yours.

Then there was the online community, like overgrow.com. That’s where you got your weed knowledge.

The first harvest that I ever grew was all males. I did not know that they were males. With huge nut sacks. I was like, “I have a special strain?”

XZIBIT: Nobody told you?

Anna: On the forums, yeah. They were mean and said things like, “Women should stay out of the grow room.”

But it was different then. And obviously not legal. You had to really, really love it.

XZIBIT: It’s interesting to hear you talk about the love of the plant. But it is a business. You’ve run a really successful business. How long has CAM been on the market?

Anna: Since ‘09. I had a little break after selling the business in Colorado. Then I came to California.

XZIBIT: So what has your experience been like on the business side of things in California? Walk us through the good, the bad, and the ugly of getting into the marketplace.

Anna: I think it was my 10th building. I was so lucky to land in Sacramento. It was business friendly and they wanted cannabis businesses. There were tons of exciting brands out there.

There was huge growth and community. There had been dispensaries there since Prop. 215.

I looked in Oakland first, but I couldn’t find a normal building or landlord. Everyone wanted 30% of the business or some very interesting rent requirements.

I was really lucky to find a great building in Sacramento. That part was great. The licensing part was no problem.

I had brought all these strains from Colorado that I thought were great. There were around 90 strains of OG kush.

So I came here and everybody was growing other stuff. There were so many new brands.

So just to break into the market, I was selling wholesale pounds to, I think, Candescent. It was hand-to-mouth.

I had a really vibrant brand in Colorado. It was Deli style. Pop-top containers. Then when I came here, I was like, “Holy hell.” This is where the adults are.

And hundreds of millions of dollars in a marketing budget, too.

So I decided that I couldn’t compete. I didn’t want to bring in any investment yet. So I did what I could. That first year was tough.

The second and third year, we got into stores. I worked in all stages of production.

And it was all about the team because I had a couple of people who came out from Colorado. Some of the first employees are still with me. I feel really lucky that these folks stayed.

In the beginning, those people really have to love you and believe in your vision to stick with it. But early on, it’s about building the team and keeping those people happy. Retain the talent.

XZIBIT: Do you mind talking about numbers?

Anna: Sure.

XZIBIT: What would you say CAM is evaluated at now?

Anna: We’re third in flower in the state, so we’re doing about 3.6 to 4 million in retails. So nothing humongous.

For comparison, Stiiizy does 54 million. So even though we’re third or fourth, there’s a huge difference between the ranks.

We also just came out with a vape pen. CAM is a healthy business.

We have about 87 employees. We do the whole gamut. We produce and distribute.

I think that’s a huge piece of success-making sure the product gets to the stores and developing relationships with the bud tenders, the buyers, and others.

And if the product is sitting-and it does sit sometimes—you need to make sure you get that product off the shelf and replace it with new stuff. It’s like food and can go bad.

Tammy: Yeah. When I’m shopping, I ask for the harvest date and the package date. If it’s 6 months, I won't buy it.

I was in another state and looking at the labels and it read nine months. And I was like, “You guys are selling this at full price?”

So that’s a tip for people shopping at dispensaries. Ask for what’s fresh.

Anna: Ask for what’s fresh. Ask for what’s new for a brand. If you’re trying to support a new brand and try something new, I would hold off.

You only have two chances with a customer. If they like your stuff the first and second time, and they try it a third time and it’s bad, they might come back. But they have 300 other options and 200 other price points.

And we’re kind of at the top end of being expensive. I went from being the cheapest and most valuable, to being the most expensive. We’ve been able to hold the price point.

And we’re also learning that there’s different strokes for different folks. You need to have a brand that does mid-shelf and maybe even an economy line.

Tammy: There are a lot of people who don’t want top shelf. They wouldn’t even appreciate it.

Anna: Or they’re volume smokers. Or they just want to buy an ounce of something. And there’s nothing wrong with that.

And it’s also body chemistry. I have an insanely high tolerance. Some people are going to get high off something weaker.

Tammy: It’s a cool thing that you bring up chemistry.

We’ve talked about the endocannabinoid system and how everyone’s body is going to react differently to the plant just like their body reacts differently to food.

So for the people who want the most expensive stuff, the people who are the ‘cannaisseurs,’ CAM is definitely for them.

But if you’re new to weed, I’m going to recommend something else. Don’t waste your money. Get the cheap stuff and work your way up.

Anna: And find out how you want to smoke. It’s the same with concentrates. Ease into it.

Especially for women. I want women to have a really good experience.

I think a lot of people jump into edibles because they don’t want to smoke. Edibles are a completely different drug.

Eating edibles is not anywhere near what you’re going to experience smoking weed. It’s two completely different highs.

Tammy: Do you guys have concentrates?

Anna: We just came out with a 1 gram vape that’s live resin.

But we’re a flower company. Our lane is flower, and we’re going to stay that way until someone tells me otherwise.

There are states, though, where it’s changing. Where concentrates are being sold more than flower.

Tammy: It’s becoming a new thing. I love flower. If I do concentrates, it’s usually going to be a live rosin.

I even want to learn to make concentrate with my flat iron.

XZIBIT: You can do that?

Anna: Yeah. Just squish it with the buds in.

XZIBIT: Ok. Another weekend project. Thanks.

So what is the future plan for CAM?

Anna: We just opened up a 2000 liter facility. That has been a challenge. That has pushed all aspects of my patience.

XZIBIT: Give us an example of the stresses of opening up that facility.

Anna: I think one is stressing out your current team even more. They are already operating a vibrant brand.

And then there’s a whole new set of people. Wherever you are, it’s hard to find new people.

And keeping people happy. You want your plants to be in a good environment. Environment is everything for cannabis plants. I think it’s the same for people.

Then turning everything on at once. You’re harvesting about 200 pounds every 2 days. Getting all of that processed is difficult.

And commissioning the HVAC units. You have to do it while the plants are in the room to see if it will hold your humidity and temperature.

The construction stuff and making sure your folks are happy. I expected 6-8 months to get something up and running, but I’d say give yourself 12-18 months to get a new facility dialed in.

XZIBIT: I was moving pallets at 3am. I would never ask anyone to do anything I haven’t done myself. That’s the way I run my companies.

It may not be the best way because you have to draw the line between ‘you are working for me’ and ‘you are working with me.’.

It can be a shit show if you bring friends or family in.

Anna: No friends.

XZIBIT: I stopped hiring friends and family because I always become the bad guy.

Anna: And no matter how much you give on the family and friend side, it’s not enough.

XZIBIT: It’s not enough. I can’t give you a life.

Anna: I provide a job. I provide benefits. This is what I can give. I would love to give more, but also what are you giving?

It’s a give and take.

Tammy: Being successful in business is having boundaries. Friends and family are people you can’t do business with because it’s always personal.

Anna: I will say it’s lonely at the top. It’s because your circle is going to get smaller. Some people aren’t going to be able to keep up with you and your growth. And they’re doing their own stuff, too.

XZIBIT: Are you self-motivated or do you need a support system?

Anna: I’m super self-motivated. I think that when you grow up with so little, you always have a chip on your shoulder about how you could get back to that pretty easily, so you always want to keep grinding.

Plus, I like it. I can’t imagine getting up and not having something to do. I like that sense of purpose.

XZIBIT: If someone came up to you right now and wanted to buy you out, would you sell?

Anna: Everything is for sale. But I would like to remain involved with the business. So I guess not right now.

I think that when you sell your business or bring on a partner, you’ve sold the parts. Now you have shareholders and people to answer to.

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that. I think you naturally grow as a business owner and sometimes you need a partner to get to the next level.

I was lucky to find a partner who sees my potential. Not a lot of people wandering around being like, “Oh, yeah, let’s give lots of money to small brown people.”

Even though it’s not, I treat an investment like a loan. I think some of that’s missing from cannabis. People just take in money and move on, but the whole point is to return the capital and then some.

XZIBIT: A plethora of knowledge coming from Anna Willey.

What is your philosophy on business? What is your vision for your cannabis?

Anna: My philosophy for business is that you should always be in start-up mode.

The second thing is get to default alive. Get to a point where you can’t default on the business. Meaning, your burn rate isn’t exceeding what you’re bringing in. You’re cash-flow positive.

So save for a rainy day. The taxes are debilitating. But, guess what? It’s going to change. Something has to change.

I’m very apprehensive of Schedule 3 because I really think it’s just another ploy to do all sorts of strange things. I’m pro de-scheduling, as we’ve been promised.

Tammy: But we’ve been promised that since Jimmy Carter and no one’s done anything. Red or blue.

None of them are going to do anything.

Anna: No one wants to be known as the guy who legalized weed.

XZIBIT: Why not? That’d be cool as fuck.

Tammy: Because they are appealing to the swing voters. The swing voters have the power and they are sensitive to certain topics, including cannabis.

And I don’t think the government deserves any tax dollars. You mean to tell me that now that 30+ states have legalized weed, you’re like, “Let me get my cut?”

Anna: They got their cut by having folks work in prison for 3 cents an hour. They’ve been getting their cut.

XZIBIT: Deschedule cannabis, please. We’re going to take this to Washington.

Tammy: There’s people already trying, but the lobbyists own everything.

Anna: And that’s where, as an industry, we hurt. We don’t have lobby money and it’s because we give all our money to taxes.

I think that’s what I’d like to see come back in the next few years-a vision for the industry.

For me, we’re trying to grow a company and we want you to buy the product because it’s a great product.

And secondary, you’re supporting women and women in power. And there’s a minority component to that. There’s a community component to that. There’s a legacy operator component to that.

So all those things together build an authentic story.

XZIBIT. Well you’ve got my vote. Anna Willey from CAM Cannabis. How do they get in touch with you?

Anna: You can hit me up on Instagram @camstr007.

And find us in 350 shops in California.

XZIBIT: Are you at liberty to talk about what other states you’re going into?

Anna: Yes, absolutely. We just launched in Colorado. And we’re launching in Michigan, Illinois, Maryland, and as soon as New York gets its stuff together, New York.

XZIBIT: When are you going to be in Illinois?

Anna: In December.

XZIBIT: Awesome.

Tammy: Congrats. I love seeing women in weed kill it. Especially in the flower and cultivation space. It’s so male dominated.

Anna: It is.

XZIBIT: A dude-fest!

Anna: You know what’s kind of cool? With women leaders, we really bring that ‘you work with me’ attitude. We’re more empathetic.

The plants are women. We’re women. We want to take care of people. We have the ‘hire to retire’ mentality.

XZIBIT: It’s a harsh marketplace, but you do it with style. Check out CAM Cannabis.

This is X to the Z, XZIBIT.

Tammy: And this is Tammy, a.k.a. The Cannabis Cutie.

XZIBIT: Signing off!