Xzibit: It’s the Lasagna Ganja Podcast. I am Mr. X to the Z, Xzibit.

Tammy: And I’m your girl, Tammy, a.k.a. The Cannabis Cutie.

Xzibit: And we are rocking and rolling. Today is going to be a very ‘you’ episode.

When I say ‘you,’ I mean that this episode is going to be about science! It’s going to be about 4 or 5 syllable words.

Tammy: Ok so this is more of a ‘Tammy’ episode.

Xzibit: Yeah, you guys are going to geek out.

Today we have somebody special. Len May, CEO of Endocanna Health.

Basically, the product is a test. It’s like ancestry.com, but for cannabis. You send in a swab and you get your results back.

So health is wealth. I am on this journey—I went to a chiropractor today.

So me and my lady went in today. Found out I have some issues with my posture. My disc #5 and 6 are showing signs of arthritis. I blame it on my chains.

But really, it’s just shit I need to work on. He cracked my neck, my back, and pulled my legs out from under me. I definitely know I have to work on my posture.

Tammy: Do you feel relief from all the cracking?

Xzibit: I do. I feel it’s just something that I have to keep up. It’s not just a one time thing.

I’m finding new things to do with my time. Investing back into me.

Tammy: Self-care, self-love, yeah!

Len: It’s the most important investment you can make.

Xzibit: So that brings us back to what we’re talking about today, which is health is wealth.

And finding out what the plant can do for you and what we’re genetically disposed to.

Len: You’re talking about your personal health journey, so wouldn’t it be nice to know everything about yourself and then create a personalized protocol that’s just for you?

We’re all different. You go to the doctor and they say take 2 of these. Why two? Why not 1 for you and 4 for me? Because we all metabolize differently.

So that’s the goal. We want to create a personalized medical health journey.

Xzibit: Thank you for joining us today. This is one layer that I don’t think people get into a lot.

We talk about the medicinal uses of cannabis, but this has to deal directly with the endocannabinoid system.

But before we get into that, let’s just talk about your journey with cannabis. What has been your experience? What was your entry into cannabis and why are you so passionate?

Len: I was the kid that would sit in class and all these thoughts would be in my head. The teacher would call on me, and I would be like, “What?”

I got diagnosed with ADD. When I was 13 or 14, my doctor gave me meds.

I can’t say they didn’t work, they just made me not feel anything.

So I was hanging out with these older kids and they asked me if I wanted a cigarette. I said alright. I never questioned why they only had one cigarette.

So I took a drag and it tasted different from other cigarettes. So I inhaled again and they were laughing at me. I said, “What?”

They said they filled the cigarette up with weed. So I’m like, ok.

I went back to class and the windows in my head narrowed. I could focus. So I gave up all the pharmaceutical meds and cannabis became my go-to medicine.

My parents kept catching me and eventually ended up kicking me out and calling the cops on me.

The irony is that now they both use products that we make. So now they’re fans.

I became the president of the Cannabis Action Network. I fought for legalization. I was a lobbyist. I held a rally at Independence Hall in Philly.

But then my wife was like, “You have to get a real job.” So I went to work in corporate.

When I moved to LA, I met some guys. They wanted to open up an alternative pharmacy. A dispensary. This is back in 2009 or 2010.

We opened up a shop called Kush Kingdom and then opened up four more stores under the same brand.

But the thing I was passionate about were the therapeutic powers of the plant. So I would notice that people would go in, consume the same variety, and have a completely different experience.

Why are we consuming the same product but having a completely different experience?

So I started getting into plant genomics. I started working with this guy named Kevin McKernan, who is the Chief Science Officer at a company called Medicinal Genomics.

He was the first person to genetically sequence cannabis.

Pharmacogenomics is the study of how drugs affect an individual’s body and how drugs affect each other.

So one day I was like—we have human genetics here, plant genetics here, so let’s bring those two together.

And so I started my company Endocanna Health in 2017.

Xzibit: So Endocanna Health is where you take a swab test and send it in. What are the results that you get back? And what are you looking for?

Len: Well, we’ll start with the patent. Our patent says that we use DNA to make recommendations associated with the endocannabinoid system through a graphical user interface.

And we just got approved for machine learning AIs. So now we can start using AIs to guide people to those specific inferences.

So we look at every genetic biomarker that is directly or indirectly associated with the endocannabinoid system, which is the primary moderating system in our body.

If the endocannabinoid system is in balance, it helps all the other systems.

With all those genetic biomarkers, we show you what you’re predisposed to. Think of it as a bunch of on/off switches. And this is the ‘way’ of your life. Your GPS.

When you know your genetic predispositions, you can know what to avoid or what to consume more of.

So if you have a predisposition to some sort of stress activity and you’re consuming cannabis that’s high in THC, you may trigger that on/off switch and have an anxiety event.

I talk to people all the time that say they can’t consume cannabis because it causes them stress. Well, I ask them what kind of cannabis do you consume?

Tammy: I promise you that there is a subgroup of people who cannot do citrus strains. I am one of those people.

Sometimes it’s good and sometimes my heart is racing, I’m sweaty, and I feel like I’m going to pass out.

I’d be interested to see if my profile tells me to stay far away from anything like that.

Len: I can already tell you that. So there’s a gene that is associated with stress activity.

So the people who are prone to this, turn this gene on and then have a lot more anxiety and stress. Your fight or flight reflex turns on.

And it can be triggered with those citrus varieties.

Without even cannabis being involved, if you have a stressful event—like almost being hit by a car—you have a neurochemical event.

So you have adrenaline, dopamine, cortisol—all that is pumped into your blood.

Now when your mind realizes there’s no problem, two things happen.

First, there is a re-uptake of those chemicals.

Second, your brain secretes new chemicals. One of those happens to be anandamide. Anandamide is an endogenous cannabinoid. We produce that ourselves.

Tammy: For our listeners, endogenous means coming from within the body. Anandamide is our body’s own version of THC.

Len: So the cortisol that stays in your bloodstream, if you’re prone to a stress reaction, can make your immune system overreact.

You can have inflammation as a result. It starts in your knees and ankles.

So you can subsidize what you’re naturally deficient in based on consuming THC. The trick is getting enough that is personalized to you and not too much. And also the right terpene profile.

Xzibit: I’ve never had an issue smoking weed. It doesn’t matter how strong it is or what strain, I’ve just never had those issues.

Tammy: I’d love to compare your test to my test and see what strains we consume because for me, anything that smells like gasoline is great.

And some sweet smells are good and some are off-putting.

So I’m interested to see if you have any of the stress reactions that I have.

Xzibit: Oh, I’ve got stress!

Len: But you react differently.

How are you with edibles?

Xzibit: I love them.

Len: We all have different experiences.

Our profile looks at about 700,000 genetic biomarkers directly or indirectly connected to the endocannabinoid system.

It looks at metabolic function.

It also looks at drug-to-drug interactions. We have a lot of people who contact us who are on antidepressants.

There’s an interaction between cannabinoids and antidepressants, so maybe you don’t have to take them at the same time. Speak to a doctor.

When we met with the FDA, they asked us what the purpose of our test was. We said that the purpose was to help mitigate or to avoid an adverse experience.

They said we can’t make any claims or talk about a disease, but we can talk about symptomatic conditions.

So maybe we can’t talk about Parkinson’s Disease, but we can talk about tremors or other symptoms associated with Parkinson’s.

The next phase of our process is looking at all your health markers on your genome. What are you predisposed to? What are your hormone optimizations? What’s specific to you?

Xzibit: What’s the difference between doing a swab and more comprehensive blood work?

Len: Blood work usually captures a moment in time. I’ll give you an example.

I hate getting my blood taken. It’s not the needles, but just getting blood taken creates a lot of anxiety for me.

I did a physical. Got my blood taken. It came back and said that my blood-glucose level is high.

The doctor I’m talking to says that maybe stress is the reason. So I wore a glucose monitor for a few weeks.

The point I’m making is that if you don’t wear a monitor and just rely on the bloodwork, it’ll say your blood pressure is high and they’ll put you on medication.

What saliva does is it gives you genetic predispositions. It says you may be predisposed to something, and here’s the action you can take to avoid turning that switch on.

Tammy: How have you used Endocanna Health and your results to improve your life?

In my personal life, it confirmed a lot of things that I already knew about myself.

First of all, I already know that I’m prone to depressive states. So as I consume things that make me feel down, or if I’m going through that in my life, I can tell that I’m spiraling.

It helps me to know how to lift myself up.

It also taught me how to look at test results of different products.

It’s so important to look at test results and what’s the terpene profile, what’s the cannabinoid ratio, what is my sweet spot?

Xzibit: I’m actually going to do a test on myself today, in the studio. We’re going to get my results.

Tammy: One of the cool things about that test is that I didn’t even have to mail it in. I just uploaded my raw data from another DNA site. My results were pretty quick.

Len: Yeah, you can use any other DNA test, like from ancestry.com.

So, Xzibit, just take the collection device, swab the inside of your cheek, and put it in the bag.

Tammy: Now can you take the test high?

Len: Of course!

Xzibit: How long does it take to get the results back?

Len: 2 to 4 weeks.

And then you’ll log into your own portal to view your results. You’ll register with a number we give you.

If you ship your sample right now, we won’t know it belongs to you. But we’ll register you.

Tammy: So I have my results right here.

Let’s go with the drug dependence report. So I have a variant detected for alcohol dependence.

So that means I’m genetically predisposed to suffer from alcoholism?

Len: Correct.

Tammy: So that is absolutely true. It runs in my family and is why I don’t drink.

Len: What about opioids?

Tammy: Cocaine dependence, no variants detected.

Len: So pain management specialists use this to see if their patients may have a predisposition to opioid abuse. If they do, they may prescribe their patients something else.

1 in 4 people has the dependence gene. It’s why we have the opioid epidemic.

So if you already know you’re predisposed to opioids, why would any doctor look at your predisposition and prescribe you opioids when phytocannabinoids are an alternative?

Tammy: Psychostimulant dependence, no variant detected. Also agree. Though if weed was on here, I wonder what it would say.

Xzibit: There are people who have an interest in consuming cannabis but are afraid of an adverse reaction. So with this test, is it a way for people to determine what’s right for them?

Len: That’s exactly it. The purpose of the test is to show people where the potholes are in their own personal road.

I’d say most of the people who use the test have either had an adverse experience with cannabis or have a disease or condition they want to address.

Some people want to sleep better. A lot of THC does the opposite for people. It creates an active brain.

You may pass out, but you’re not getting a restful sleep. So maybe you need less THC, a different terpene profile, or myrcene instead.

People that have pain—you can take a lot of analgesics like THC to stop the pain, but what are you doing to stop the cause?

Because CBD reduces inflammation, which causes the pain.

We also have care counselors. Everyone who takes the test has access to care counselors who can explain the results of the test to them.

And if they have a condition, they can speak to a healthcare professional through telehealth.

Tammy: The reason why something like this is amazing is because a lot of people assume cannabis is like alcohol. They think it’s just going to get them high.

When we take a psychedelic, we know to set our intention. Not a lot of people do that with their cannabis.

And then some people are going to the Everclear version of cannabis before even having a wine cooler. Something like 10mg of cannabis might as well be a 100mg of cannabis.

So it’s dope that something like this exists because until we have medical professionals dispensing advice on this, you’re going to have young people at dispensaries who are just there to have a job.

Xzibit: Before you go for Everclear, go for White Claw!

Tammy: Go for the mids starting out. Those might not interest us connoisseurs, but go for the mids.

And also, if you’re new to cannabis, get a journal.

You need to write down the strain name, where you bought it, whether or not you like how it smelled, how you felt before and after, what the harvest date was, and so on.

I think these tests are something that could revolutionize the industry as long as the right people use it properly.

I trust you would not sell my DNA to robots.

Len: I just want to say, and this is really important about the DNA thing, we don’t register your name.

We have DNA and a number. Once you register, you’re a number.

We are looking to get as many DNA samples as we can. We will have data, but we don’t care about the individual.

We want the data that says these people had a similar profile and took a certain medication and showed that it was efficacious.

That way, machine learning can start making predictions.

It creates a Polygenic Risk Score, which is a score for all those people who are similar to you.

Xzibit: People who have never consumed but are taking it seriously and are looking for alternative medicines can use this new system to come into cannabis comfortably.

I think that’s one more feather in the cap of the ingenuity of the people in cannabis. I think it’s fantastic.

Thank you for coming and blessing us today. I’m looking forward to getting the test results for my Endocanna Health DNA swab to see what I need to be doing with my endocannabinoid system.

Where can they find you?

Len: You can go to endodna.com. I’m all over social. Len May or @lenmaydna on Instagram.

Xzibit: It’s the Lasagna Ganja Podcast and I am X to the Z, Xzibit.

Tammy: And I’m Tammy, aka The Cannabis Cutie.

Xzibit: And we have a lot in store for you coming up. Stay tuned!